Question:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – } }Mark if the well pump sucked air you’d have spitting everywhere. Are }the filters the disposable cartridge types or backwashed filters? Do }you have a softener since you mention unsoftened water? Did you notice }spitting/air in other lines/places? Yes, I heard the incoming water to the softener dropping thru the air in the top–made a splashing sound that was never there before, or since. I ‘burped’ the softener but the air & the sound was back within a couple days. Gone now for at least 2 months. No spitting from anything downstream of the softener since the water is drawn from the bottom of the softener resin bed–no air down there.
As I see your setup the water from the pressure tank goes to a tee with the softener and house on one leg and the filters and icemaker etc. on the other. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – }The color can not be caused by air }unless you have dissolved iron in the water to start with or }galvanized or other type plumbing that can rust (able to be oxidized }by oxygen, air). Black is usually due to ’sulfur’, manganese and/or }bacteria, algae etc.. Air in that line could be from a gas produced by }bacteria in the carbon. You have had the water tested consistently for }bacteria since you’re using carbon and know you shouldn’t use it on }water of unknown microbiological content, right? Definitely some iron in water. This filtration setup is a branch off the softener inlet so there’s no iron removal here. Now that all the air is gone from the system my disposable ctg case is once again black rather than rust red.
So you had air in both legs, which says a leak in the plumbing from the well or the pump sucked air. Is there a website that goes into detail about submersible pump installation (& removal)? I’ve watched a well being dug but have never been present as the liner is installed & the pump installed. Not familiar with the fine details. I’d like to know what’s involved in removing / replacing the pump, how the water pipe/hose/whatever is attached, etc.
Not to my knowledge but I haven’t looked lately so do a search. I do not think pump replacement is a DIY’er type thing unless you have helped someone do it. And you need someoen to help you do it, it can be difficult to impossible otherwise. It all depends on how deep the pump is in the well. Gary Quality Water – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – } }Gary }Quality Water }
Response:
As long as your well has good output and as long as you have space, than go for it. I have 3-80’s and 1-15 for a drawdown capacity of around 75 gallons. The pump only has to start a couple times a day and it runs for about 7-8 minutes per cycle. The advantages are longer pump life and hopefully buffer capacity in the event of a power outage. (But Murphy’s law states that when there’s an outage, the tanks will be nearly empty and the pressure switch will be one click away from starting the pump. History suggests that Murphy is correct!!!)
To increase reserve the best choice is an atmospheric tank filled by the present submersible well pump. That pump controlled by a float switch in the new tank and another sub. pump in the tank, controlled by the present pr. switch, pumping into the present (small or large) pressure tank(s). Of course Murphy will knock out the power and it’s all for naught unless you have a generator for the atmospheric tank pump. This is also the best solution (including a timer control for the pump in the well) when you have a ‘marginal’ well. Gary Quality Water
Response:
} }Mark if the well pump sucked air you’d have spitting everywhere. Are }the filters the disposable cartridge types or backwashed filters? Do }you have a softener since you mention unsoftened water? Did you notice }spitting/air in other lines/places?
Yes, I heard the incoming water to the softener dropping thru the air in the top–made a splashing sound that was never there before, or since. I ‘burped’ the softener but the air & the sound was back within a couple days. Gone now for at least 2 months. No spitting from anything downstream of the softener since the water is drawn from the bottom of the softener resin bed–no air down there. }The color can not be caused by air }unless you have dissolved iron in the water to start with or }galvanized or other type plumbing that can rust (able to be oxidized }by oxygen, air). Black is usually due to ’sulfur’, manganese and/or }bacteria, algae etc.. Air in that line could be from a gas produced by }bacteria in the carbon. You have had the water tested consistently for }bacteria since you’re using carbon and know you shouldn’t use it on }water of unknown microbiological content, right?
Definitely some iron in water. This filtration setup is a branch off the softener inlet so there’s no iron removal here. Now that all the air is gone from the system my disposable ctg case is once again black rather than rust red. Is there a website that goes into detail about submersible pump installation (& removal)? I’ve watched a well being dug but have never been present as the liner is installed & the pump installed. Not familiar with the fine details. I’d like to know what’s involved in removing / replacing the pump, how the water pipe/hose/whatever is attached, etc. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -} }Gary }Quality Water }
Response:
Thanks for the responses & tips. The responses about running my well dry reminded me of something. Last summer I experienced something with my well I haven’t seen before in the 7 years I’ve lived in this 25 year old house. I have a sediment filter ahead of a carbon filter which provides unsoftened water to my ice maker, drinking water faucet on the kitchen sink, and furnace humidifier. For about 2 months I was getting trapped air in this line–noticable as the water out of the tap would spit for a few seconds. Anyway I also noticed the clear filter housing was red inside instead of the usually sooty-black buildup. I assume this was oxygen acting on the trapped minerals & forming rust. This went away later in the season likely due to some much-needed rainfall. Was my well going dry & the pump sucking air? Or is this an indication of sediment buildup in the well lowering the water level? Mark – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -}I have a tiny diaphragm type surge tank (no readable label but I’d }guess max 20Gal). It’s charged to 30psi (verified) but my pump cycles }quite a bit during a shower & the pressure noticeably cycles. In }other homes i have seen gigantic tanks & I’d like to know if there’s }any such thing as too much of a good thing? } }Mark
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks for the responses & tips. The responses about running my well dry reminded me of something. Last summer I experienced something with my well I haven’t seen before in the 7 years I’ve lived in this 25 year old house. I have a sediment filter ahead of a carbon filter which provides unsoftened water to my ice maker, drinking water faucet on the kitchen sink, and furnace humidifier. For about 2 months I was getting trapped air in this line–noticable as the water out of the tap would spit for a few seconds. Anyway I also noticed the clear filter housing was red inside instead of the usually sooty-black buildup. I assume this was oxygen acting on the trapped minerals & forming rust. This went away later in the season likely due to some much-needed rainfall. Was my well going dry & the pump sucking air? Or is this an indication of sediment buildup in the well lowering the water level? Mark
Mark if the well pump sucked air you’d have spitting everywhere. Are the filters the disposable cartridge types or backwashed filters? Do you have a softener since you mention unsoftened water? Did you notice spitting/air in other lines/places? The color can not be caused by air unless you have dissolved iron in the water to start with or galvanized or other type plumbing that can rust (able to be oxidized by oxygen, air). Black is usually due to ’sulfur’, manganese and/or bacteria, algae etc.. Air in that line could be from a gas produced by bacteria in the carbon. You have had the water tested consistently for bacteria since you’re using carbon and know you shouldn’t use it on water of unknown microbiological content, right? Gary Quality Water
Response:
I have a tiny diaphragm type surge tank (no readable label but I’d guess max 20Gal). It’s charged to 30psi (verified) but my pump cycles quite a bit during a shower & the pressure noticeably cycles. In other homes i have seen gigantic tanks & I’d like to know if there’s any such thing as too much of a good thing? Mark
Response:
As long as your well has good output and as long as you have space, than go for it. I have 3-80’s and 1-15 for a drawdown capacity of around 75 gallons. The pump only has to start a couple times a day and it runs for about 7-8 minutes per cycle. The advantages are longer pump life and hopefully buffer capacity in the event of a power outage. (But Murphy’s law states that when there’s an outage, the tanks will be nearly empty and the pressure switch will be one click away from starting the pump. History suggests that Murphy is correct!!!) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I have a tiny diaphragm type surge tank (no readable label but I’d guess max 20Gal). It’s charged to 30psi (verified) but my pump cycles quite a bit during a shower & the pressure noticeably cycles. In other homes i have seen gigantic tanks & I’d like to know if there’s any such thing as too much of a good thing? Mark
Response:
I have a tiny diaphragm type surge tank (no readable label but I’d guess max 20Gal). It’s charged to 30psi (verified) but my pump cycles quite a bit during a shower & the pressure noticeably cycles. In other homes i have seen gigantic tanks & I’d like to know if there’s any such thing as too much of a good thing? Mark
I suggest you check and set the air pressure in your tank with no water in it. Before you do, run the water and note the pressure gauge readings as the pump comes on and goes off. Whatever the range is; i.e. 30/50 the air pressure in the tank should be 1-2 psi less than the lower setting. If you see 20/40, 25/32 etc. I’d raise it to 30/50. You do that by running water and adjusting the pressure switch tall screw nut, or front bolt, down. That raises both settings simultaneously. The short screw nut, or back bolt, controls the cut-in setting only, the higher one, 40 or 32 in this example, leaving the cut-in where it is. Down/tighten raises and up/loosen lowers. When you have things (air pr. and switch settings) set right try the water for a day or so and see if that doesn’t help. If you get water out of the air valve you have a broken bladder and if the pressure is low, air has leaked over time and you may have a leak in the bladder and water hasn’t yet filled the area above the bladder. Or the valve stem needs to be tightened. If you have a bad bladder you will have to replace the tank in most cases. As to TOO BIG a tank… yes if you have a situation where you could run the well out of water by pumping the water down in the well to the inlet of the pump; then you suck air which is very hard on pumps and water using appliances. It also means you do without water until the well recovers. The size of the tank is usually made based on price, thinking ‘the lower the price the better’ is common. But, pumps should be run a minimum of one minute for protection against shortening their life and increased cost to operate them. Starting the pump is where the most wear occurs, so fewer starts equals less wear. Something to remember is that if you like cooler or cold water, all tanks act as a tempering tank, raising the water temp because there is so much water at room temp. A partial solution is to insulate the tank trying to keep the temp lower than room temp. You also improve the conditions for bacterial growth with the larger tank IMO. And the possibility of dirty water due to the amount of unusable water left in the larger tanks. Periodically draining and flushing any size tank is a good idea. Gary Quality Water
Response:
Test your pump to see how many Gal/min it produces and then size the tank so that the pump runs for one minute. To cut down on the pressure differential that you see and to get more pressure, increase the size of the tank and close the differential and increase the pressure range. I usually set them up at 50-65psi. You will have to get some data on the tank performance so that you can maintain the one minute run time. Tank size will be directly related to the gpm of your pump and the drawdown rating of the tank at the pressure that you want to operate. You will have to increase the precharge pressure to about 2psi less that the cut-in pressure. So for 50-65, it would be 48psi.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a tiny diaphragm type surge tank (no readable label but I’d guess max 20Gal). It’s charged to 30psi (verified) but my pump cycles quite a bit during a shower & the pressure noticeably cycles. In other homes i have seen gigantic tanks & I’d like to know if there’s any such thing as too much of a good thing? Mark
Response:
I have a tiny diaphragm type surge tank (no readable label but I’d guess max 20Gal). It’s charged to 30psi (verified) but my pump cycles quite a bit during a shower & the pressure noticeably cycles. In other homes i have seen gigantic tanks & I’d like to know if there’s any such thing as too much of a good thing?
The only reason for not having a really large one (other than size) is if you have a "slow" well where the water level might drop below the intake if the pump runs a long time. But you could compensate for that somewhat by narrowing the pressure range of the pump switch.
Response:
Categories: Furnace Mount Humidifier | 
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Anyway — this won’t help with your current dilemma, but what I do is take a 1 gallon resealable plastic bag and put 3 bottles with about a cup of straight white ammonia(no dilution). Shake to coat the bottles in the cleaner and leave to sit for 3 or more days. The labels and the glue just fall off without getting any undesireables into the bottles — this even works with the dreaded foil labels and Ommegang bottles. If you do this, you should put the bag into a bucket of some sort — I’ve had the bag leak once or twice and tbe bucket kept the mess contained. –drsmith Before you buy.