Question:

I would like to add a few additional comments:

Me too.  I was informed long ago by Andy Marshall (author of Composite Basics, and asepoxy- wise as they come,) that the problem occasionally is the  wetting agents that are applied by the mfgr to the glass fibers.  Apparently these agents encourage the epoxy to stick better, and although very very little is actually applied, these things are chemically disasterous and there often is enough there to cause all manner of misery to those suseptable — just ask me. The resolution was to use gloves. Makes rag and tube look better all the time.  Sigh. Quent

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Do yourself a favor and STOP.  Protection will only prolong the inevtiable and furthur exposure will make the ultimate symptoms all the worse. Good Luck.

Group,   I too am building a composite airplane in a cold climate.  We have little choice but to severely  limit airflow in our work areas.  I originally started with Safety-Poxy  (Safety Poxy  was later outlawed in the workplace by OSHA for being a carcinogen and a liver toxin) and exposure to that epoxy affected me badly.  An organic vapor, charcoal cartridge respirator wouldn’t filter the fumes.  I fashioned a fresh-air respirator using plastic hose and existing respirator parts, but after being sensitized,  my body would hardly tolerate even the smallest exposure.      When technology came to my rescue I converted to Aeropoxy.   END OF PROBLEM.   Aeropoxy  has a mild smell and no body reactions for me.  Aeropoxy is not the only bio-friendly epoxy but I am having good luck with it.      My two pesos:  if it IS the resin that is your problem and not some other reaction, as mentioned before;  change resin systems. With your reaction to your present materials, your body may be telling you something.  I think mine was. Yours truly, Bruce Vinnola

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Group,  I too am building a composite airplane in a cold climate.  We have little (snip) respirator parts, but after being sensitized,  my body would hardly tolerate even the smallest exposure.     When technology came to my rescue I converted to Aeropoxy.   END OF PROBLEM.   Aeropoxy  has a mild smell and no body reactions for me.  Aeropoxy is not the only bio-friendly epoxy but I am having good luck with it.

I completely agree. I have limited experience with homebuilt aircraft (I’m an A&P student right now) but I have 10 years experience with epoxy systems working in a boatyard. My experience has been that the resin systems can make a HUGE difference in the reaction of individuals. I haven’t used Aeropoxy, but I know that the Gougeon Brothers (WEST systems) make some great products for the sensitive. If you have problems in this wise, call WEST… They’re good people. I’ve also used SYSTEMTHREE and RAKA epoxies (RAKA is a discounter), but usually stick with WEST because of the service you get (NOTE: I don’t, nor have I ever worked for them. Just a satisfied customer). One note… It’s probably not such a great idea to switch resin systems in the middle of a job. I did just that on a cold-molded hull once. It left a visible difference on the final product. I dunno about tensile strength, but asthetically, it wasn’t good. Plus, the paint adhered differently… Anyway, dealing with epoxy, some basic rules apply still: 1) use a respirator (or forced-air, if you can afford it.) I believe there’s a system called "HobbyAir" that came out last year. Supposed to be inexpensive and decent, but I can’t afford a garage, let alone a project right now, so I can’t tell you from personal experience. 2) Make sure the mask fits! (a bigger problem than you might think) If you take the mask off after a long period of wear and you don’t have a continuous red "ring" where the mask was… get a smaller size. 3) DONT DONT DONT use vinegar/apple cider or any other acid/alkali to clean up your hands! Fine for tools, but it will exacerbate an epoxy condition greatly. This bit of "old sailor’s lore" cost us a good worker in the yard I worked at. Sad. If you’re using gloves (professionally, we used Tyvek suits with gloves taped at the wrist, although the guy I mentioned above wanted to live forever and never did. Get the hint?), you shouldn’t be cleaning anything off your hands anyway. Use Gojo or some other pumice cleaner if absolutely nessasary. 4) Establish a set of "epoxy tools" and label them as such (colored tape works great). On tools you can’t afford to do this on (cordless drills, for instance), consider using duct or masking tape to cover areas where you grip them. When they get munged up (and they will), pull the tape off and start over. 5) Finally, if you start to have ANY problems breathing during or after epoxy exposure… get out of the garage until you see a doctor. I hope this helps… feel free to let me know if you have different experiences, or problems with what I’ve said. I’m always open-minded. Regards, R. T. Perry — Richard Todd Perry "There are two types of people in the world. Those that use HP’s, and those that yell ‘HEY! Where’s the equals sign?’"

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well,  I just heated my garage, (brand new clean furnace) and hence my first year of building with the garage door shut. Last week, I must have gotten a bit of glass dust or epoxy under my wristwatch, and by the time I woke up the next morning, it was a bubbling up! ouch!  Ok, that one I can understand… Also this week i have noticed an unexplained nasty red mark on my leg that seems to be getting bigger with a streak traveling across and down my leg. Does this sound like poisoning? WHat do you guys use for a mask and/or ventilation? Thanks Brian

Brian, You’re working in a closed shop with epoxy and you’re not wearing an organic charcoal filter respirator? You are dealing with fiberglas and you aren’t gloved above your wrist? I’d stay away untill everything clears up then try again with the proper breathing equipment and barrier clothing. I am sure others here will have a lot more to advise you. — Bruce A. Frank, Editor               "Ford 3.8L Engine and V-6 STOL                                  | Publishing interesting material|                                  | on all aspects of alternative  |                                  | engines and homebuilt aircraft.|                (-o-)/        AIRCRAFT PROJECTS CO.                 ___/           Manufacturing parts & pieces                 /             for homebuilt aircraft,                0     0          TIG welding

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Well,  I just heated my garage, (brand new clean furnace) and hence my first year of building with the garage door shut. Last week, I must have gotten a bit of glass dust or epoxy under my wristwatch, and by the time I woke up the next morning, it was a bubbling up! ouch!  Ok, that one I can understand… Also this week i have noticed an unexplained nasty red mark on my leg that seems to be getting bigger with a streak traveling across and down my leg. Does this sound like poisoning? WHat do you guys use for a mask and/or ventilation? Thanks Brian

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Brian, You’re working in a closed shop with epoxy and you’re not wearing an organic charcoal filter respirator? You are dealing with fiberglas and you aren’t gloved above your wrist? I’d stay away untill everything clears up then try again with the proper breathing equipment and barrier clothing. I am sure others here will have a lot more to advise you. — Bruce A. Frank, Editor               "Ford 3.8L Engine and V-6 STOL

        No, you pretty well covered it Bruce. I work in an enclosed heated garage with epoxy and vinyl ester too. I don’t walk out into the garage until respirator is in place and I use barrier cream-no gloves. Even with the barrier cream I still don’t go out of my way to touch things. Treat epoxy like it’s cancer waiting to happen.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well,  I just heated my garage, (brand new clean furnace) and hence my first year of building with the garage door shut. Last week, I must have gotten a bit of glass dust or epoxy under my wristwatch, and by the time I woke up the next morning, it was a bubbling up! ouch!  Ok, that one I can understand… Also this week i have noticed an unexplained nasty red mark on my leg that seems to be getting bigger with a streak traveling across and down my leg. Does this sound like poisoning? WHat do you guys use for a mask and/or ventilation? Thanks Brian

Sounds like you are definately reacting to the chemicals in the glue. Get your self a good charcoal filter respirator, and to get a good seal on your face you must be clean shaven. Wear some latex or nitrile gloves, dont let the glue contact your skin. Try using apple cider vinegar for clean up. Also get some ventiation going again. not worth getting sick to save a few bucks on heat.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well,  I just heated my garage, (brand new clean furnace) and hence my first year of building with the garage door shut. Last week, I must have gotten a bit of glass dust or epoxy under my wristwatch, and by the time I woke up the next morning, it was a bubbling up! ouch! Ok, that one I can understand… Also this week i have noticed an unexplained nasty red mark on my leg that seems to be getting bigger with a streak traveling across and down my leg. Does this sound like poisoning? WHat do you guys use for a mask and/or ventilation? Thanks Brian

Willson came out with a respirator called the Premier Plus about a year ago.  (Actually they bought the rights to the old Glendale half-mask and modified it to fit their cartridges and made it a different color.)  It’s the most comfortable one I’ve tried…I used to sell them. Look at the directions on your epoxy and find out what kind of respirator they suggest.  Start with that as a minimum.   If you start having a problem with a half-mask, you may need to upgrade to a full face supplied air.  That would be hard to work in.   Maybe you should trade in your project for a wood & fabric:) — Doug  -  Kingfisher plans here…Now, to clean the Garage. …cruising between 150 to 200 miles per hour… Greater cruising speeds are possible, but the size of the earth does not warrent greater speeds. -Igor Sikorsky in 1934

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I have worked professionally with expoxy resins for about 10 years and have seen many people develop an allergy to the stuff. Based on my observations and experiences, I would say that you are pretty much history in terms of working with epoxy resins any more.  Once you  have developed a sensitivity to the stuff it only gets worse.  Worse case scenarios I have personally seen inlcude: severe  immmune defficiencies that prevented the smallest scratches from healing, allergic reactions in the throat that put the worker in the hospital on a respirator,  huge weaping blisters over the entire body. Do yourself a favor and STOP.  Protection will only prolong the inevtiable and furthur exposure will make the ultimate symptoms all the worse. Good Luck.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well,  I just heated my garage, (brand new clean furnace) and hence my first year of building with the garage door shut. Last week, I must have gotten a bit of glass dust or epoxy under my wristwatch, and by the time I woke up the next morning, it was a bubbling up! ouch!  Ok, that one I can understand… Also this week i have noticed an unexplained nasty red mark on my leg that seems to be getting bigger with a streak traveling across and down my leg. Does this sound like poisoning? WHat do you guys use for a mask and/or ventilation? Thanks Brian

Brian, After reading several of the responses from others, I would like to add a few additional comments: First, don’t make assumptions regarding the cause and effect in this case.  It may be that you have developed a reaction to the epoxy, but it could also be several other things as well.  I can speak from experience that glass dust under the watch can be a real pain.  That does not however mean that you have developed a reaction to the epoxy.  I experienced the same thing early last summer and thought that I was in serious trouble since I was very early in my project.  Turned out that it was a combination of heat, humidity and glass fiber that was causing a rash.  Solved by using invisible glove cream and extending up the arms.  Good and through washing after use and the problem went away. You did not mention what type of gloves, if any, you are using.  If you are using latex gloves, you may be experiencing a reaction to the latex and not the epoxy.  If you have a latex sensitivity, it may be as bad or worse than an epoxy sensitivity.  Try using the invisible gloves and keep the direct contact with epoxy to a minimum.  After contact, wash and re-apply invisible gloves. Make sure and let the invisible glove cream dry completely before continuing. Also definately wear the charchoal mask during work with the epoxy and maintain good ventalation of the work area. As for the red mark and streak on your leg, I would have this examined by a doctor if it does not go away quickly.  Unless you had some epoxy or other chemical spill on your clothes providing direct contact, I would not assume that it resulted from the epoxy.   Most important, don’t give up on your project based on an assumption that you are sensitive to epoxy.  If you do determine that you have a sensitivity to the epoxy that you are currently using, check with the designer and / or kit manufacturer to determine what other resins could be substituted for the one you are using.  You may find that changing the epoxy could result in less sensitivity. Bob Reed

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THE ADULT SURVIVAL SKILLS SCOREBOARD Reprinted from SURVIVAL KIT FOR PARENTS OF TEENAGERS by David Melton St Martin’s Press, 1979      For the sake of your teenagers and all that’s sacred in your relationship, don’t use the Survival Skills Scoreboard as one of those godawful tests.  It’s not a test!      I repeat – it’s not a test"      It is a list of goals.      If the Scoreboard can in any way be considered a test, it is not an examination or an evaluation of how much your teenager has learned.  Instead, it is an examination of how often you took the time to teach them.      After checking the Scoreboard, no matter what age your teenagers may be, if you have checked most of the items NO and SOME, you have given your teenagers enough information and trained them in enough skills for them to be considered CHILDREN.      If you have checked most of the items in the FAIR and GOOD columns, you have given your teenagers enough informa- tion and trained them in sufficient skills for them to be regarded as ADOLESCENTS.      However, if you have checked most of the items EXCELLENT, you have a TEENAGE ADULT – CONGRATULATIONS.      The Survival Skills Scoreboard is not intended to indicate how much your teenagers have learned, but to evaluate how many vital pieces of information you have taken the responsibility of teaching them. *ALL QUESTIONS BELOW SHOULD BE ANSWERS AS "no," "some," "fair," "good," or "excellent" PREPARE COOKED MEALS Can your teenagers:      recognize most spices?      set a table?      Prepare soup from scratch?      fry bacon?      make toast?      fry and scramble eggs?      recognize basic good groups?      prepare a balanced diet for a day?      prepare a balanced diet for a week?      recognize if foods have spoiled?      roast a variety of meats?      broil meats?      fry meats?      mash potatoes?      make salads?      cook vegetables? COMPARISON SHOPPING Groceries — Can your teenagers:      select fresh fruits and vegetables?      purchase a week’s supply of food?      buy within a budget?      select quality meats?      compare prices?      compare sizes?  (can they recognize that a 12 oz           package of bacon is more expense than a one pound           package that is listed at the same price?)      take advantage of sale items?      use coupons?      determine what items have a long shelf-life?      identify what items spoil quickly?      make up a shopping list? COMPARISON SHOPPING Wearing Apparel – Can your teenagers:      plan a wardrobe that includes school, leisure and           dress clothes?      buy shoes that fit?      recognize types of materials?      check the quality of items?      check seams to see how well they are constructed?      realize bargains?      take advantage of sales?      compare prices?      know to keep sales slips?      know to return items?      figure percentages on sale items? COMPARISON SHOPPING Appliances: Can your teenagers:      compare prices?      check for quality?      evaluate discounts?      check for BTU ratings, etc.? GEOGRAPHY Can your teenagers:      navigate to most areas of your city?      name surrounding towns and cities?      visualize the size of your state?      visualize the relationship of the size and location of           surrounding states?      use a road map?      name all fifty states?      tell in what areas of the country each state is           located?      name the major continents of the world?      name major countries?      name twenty-five major cities in other countries?      tell you in which country they are located?      name the nine planets of our solar system?      read road signs?      ask help in directions? MATHEMATICS Can your teenagers:      add?      subtract?      multiply?      divide?      figure averages?      figure percentages?      make change for one dollar?      make change for ten dollars?      make change for one hundred dollars?      tell time?      measure in inches?      measure in feet?      measure in yards?      measure in centimeters?      measure in meters?      measure in millimeters?      recognize common measurements and compare them?  Such           as:           a teaspoon?           a tablespoon?           a cup?           a pint?           a quart?           a gallon?           a liter? READING Can your teenagers read:      a novel?      the daily newspaper?      directions on medicine bottles?      directions on detergent boxes?      cookbook instructions?      monthly statements?      a contract?      a financial account?      the elements of a dictionary definition?      traffic signs and symbols?      an index in a book?      and use a telephone book?      and use the white pages?      and use the yellow pages?      and use an encyclopedia?      and use a library?      and know the difference between fiction and nonfiction           or editorials and straight news? HOME MAINTENANCE Can your teenagers:      replace a light switch?      check the safety of an extension cord?      replace a fuse?      replace a door hinge?      replace a door knob?      hang a picture?      paint a room?      paint a trim on a house?      clean out guttering?      mow the yard?      trim around walks?      use insecticides safely?      store tools?      put up a shelf?      set a thermostat?      replace and clean furnace and air-conditioner filters?      defrost a refrigerator?      clean the stove and oven?      replace light bulbs?      key a key made?      clean the house:           dust, vacuum, mop, wax?      clean and disinfect a bathroom?      make a bed?      get rid of roaches?      tell which clothing should be laundered and which dry-           cleaned?      wash and iron clothing?      tell which cleaning fluids are best for what jobs?      do simple mending and sew on buttons?      contact the landlord or a professional for more           serious problems? APPLIANCES Can your teenager operate:      a toaster?      a stove?      a vacuum sweeper?      a dish washer?      a clothes washer?      a lawn mower?      a garbage disposal?      an electric mixer?      an oven?      an iron? CARPENTRY Can your teenager use a:      hammer?      screwdriver?      pliers?      hand drill?      hand saw?      electric gun?      level?      square? HEALTH Can your teenagers:      apply a tourniquet?      clean a cut?      apply simple bandages?      stop someone from choking on food?      give mouth to mouth resuscitation?      recognize symptoms of colds?      recognize the cause of certain pains?      treat a minor burn?      decide when to use home remedies?      decide when to go to the doctor?      administer simple medication?      identify minor infections?      use a thermometer?      prepare a balanced diet?      supplement diet with needed vitamins?      carry out a proper program of physical exercise?      swim? PERSONAL GROOMING Do your teenagers:      know how often to bathe, wash hair, brush teeth, etc.?      know the importance of using a deodorant?      know how to buy toiletries, razor blades, deodorant,           toothpaste, shampoo, etc.?      recognize quality in what they buy so they won’t be           misled by advertising?      realize the importance of making a neat, well-groomed           appearance?      realize the importance of clean clothing and shined           shoes?      know how to manicure their fingernails? SEXUALITY Do your teenagers:      know the biological basics of sex?      understand their own sexual drives?      accept responsibility for their own sexuality?      understand birth control measures?      understand basics of sexual hygiene?      know where to seek professional advice?      feel they can discuss problems with you? COMMUNICATION Can your teenagers:      dial a long distance number?      dial station-to-station?      dial person-to-person?      call collect?      readily find emergency numbers?      organize and compose a personal letter and thank you           note?      organize and compose a speech?      speak confidently and distinctly in public?      converse well in private conversations?      state opinions backed by reason and fact?      debate issues effectively? TRANSPORTATION Can your teenagers:      use public transit systems?      drive a car safely?      recognize minor mechanical problems?      take the car to a reputable mechanic?      change a tire?      check the oil, water, transmission fluid, and the           windshield washer?      be responsible for seeing that the car receives proper           maintenance? WORLD EVENTS Do your teenagers:      read the newspaper?      watch the evening news and discuss current events?      relate today’s events with history?      know the name of the President of the United States?      know the name of the Vice President of the US?      know the name of the governor of your state?      know the names of:           10 Senators?           10 US Representatives?           10 major political leaders?           10 inventors?           10 scientists?           10 world leaders?           10 famous people from your state           10 explorers?           10 religious leaders?           10 writers?           10 pop singers?           10 opera singers?           10 classical musicians?           10 dancers?           10 pop musicians?           10 popular movie actors?           10 popular movie actresses?           10 stage actors?           10 stage actresses?           10 sports heroes?           10 novelists?           10 playwrights?           10 poets?           10 national heroes?           10 international heroes? EMPLOYMENT Do your teenagers know how to:      apply for employment?      fill out an application form?      write a business letter?      mail packages?      obtain a social security card?      apply for credit?      use a credit card?      pay monthly bills?      balance a checkbook?      open a checking account?      keep a

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Can your teenagers:     fry bacon?     fry and scramble eggs?     fry meats?

Never.  No apologies.   Can your teenager use a:     electric gun?

Would that be an electric SOLDERING gun? HEALTH Can your teenagers:     supplement diet with needed vitamins?

Or can they recognize that there a million hucksters out there trying to convince them they need vitamin supplements.   COMMUNICATION Can your teenagers:     dial station-to-station?     dial person-to-person?

This has a dated sound to it.  What; is it from some Ann Landers column of forty years ago?   – Ron Low Levity is the dearth of gravity.  Brevity is the height of clarity.  

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